Dr. Caroline Leaf | Controlling Our Messy Mind | Mindset on Digestion (2023)

Linda Poindexter said, “One small crack does not mean that you are broken. It means that you were put to the test and you didn’t fall apart.” And Dan Millman said, “You don’t have to control your thoughts. You just have to stop letting them control you.”

My guest today is Dr. Caroline Leaf. She is a communication pathologist and cognitive neuroscientist specializing in cognitive and metacognitive neuropsychology. Since the early 1980s, she has researched the mind-brain connection, the nature of mental health, and the formation of memory.

She was one of the first in her field to study neuroplasticity and how the brain can change with directed mind input. She’s also a speaker, podcaster, and the author of multiple best-selling books with her latest being Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess. She has created an app called neuro cycle, which has a five-step process to help you take back control over your thoughts with scientific research showing it reduces anxiety, depression, and toxic thoughts by up to 81%.

In this episode, we discuss how important food is when detoxing the brain, how to get your messy mind under control (and what happens if you don’t), and why you should do an identity check on yourself once a year. Our conversation was so powerful that I split it up into two episodes, so make sure to listen to part two which you can find here.

(Video) EAT THESE FOODS To Heal Your Body & Mind TODAY | Dr. Caroline Leaf

Trigger warning: We do briefly discuss recovering and healing from sexual abuse.

Who is Dr. Caroline Leaf?

Dr. Caroline Leaf is a communication pathologist and cognitive neuroscientist with a Master’s and Ph.D. in Communication Pathology, and a BSc in Logopaedics from the University of Cape Town and the University of Pretoria in South Africa. She specializes in cognitive and metacognitive neuropsychology.

During her years in clinical practice and her work with thousands of underprivileged teachers and students in her home country of South Africa, as well as in the USA, she developed her theory (called the Geodesic Information Processing theory) of how we think, build memory, and learn. In doing so, she’s created practical guides and tools that have transformed the lives of hundreds of thousands of individuals with Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), learning disabilities (ADD, ADHD), autism, dementia, and mental ill-health issues like anxiety and depression.

Dr. Leaf’s podcast, Cleaning Up The Mental Mess, YouTube videos, and TV appearances have reached millions globally. She has been featured on Elle, TED, Bustle, Medium, Huffington Post, The O Magazine, Thrive Global, Something You Should Know, Getting Curious, and many other media outlets. Most recently, Dr. Leaf has been working on her app, Neurocycle, which uses a scientifically researched and revolutionary 5 Step Process to help you take back control over your thoughts and your life, with scientific research showing it reduces anxiety, depression, and toxic thoughts by up to 81%.

(Video) Neuroscientist Reveals How To START HEALING Your Body & Mind Today! | Caroline Leaf

I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Leaf back on Episode #1,079 on how we can heal our minds and overcome trauma. It was such an insightful and helpful interview, that I knew I had to bring her back! Remember to listen to part two of more insightful discussions about our brains!

Let’s jump right in!

The Impact of Mindset on Digestion

When we are looking to detox our brains, choosing the right foods is so important. However, it’s also important to know this interesting fact: Our mind controls our digestive system! Think about how much stomach pain and digestion issues we seem to have when we’re stressed and anxious. For our gut to function and digest our food properly, our mind has to be in the right place.

“Most people don’t think about it like that, but if you are eating a really healthy, organic, sustainable, farm-to-table real food, [but you are] in a mood, or perhaps not dealing with a relationship issue as you’re eating — you could lose up to 86% of that nutrition just by the state of your mind.” –Dr. Caroline Leaf

(Video) Dr. Caroline Leaf on Cleaning Up Your MENTAL MESS to Reduce Anxiety & TRAUMA | Ever Forward

Being worried, anxious, or simply not dealing with a fight you had with someone is going to impact your digestion. This is how people become bloated or even start having gut issues like leaky gut, because of constantly not dealing with our negative emotions. Dr. Leaf talks to patients about how important the mindset behind the meal is, as opposed to just thinking about our food and diet.

This isn’t to say that you can simply eat bad foods with a good mindset around them and process those foods in a healthy way. If you’re like me, you’re probably wondering whether you can have a healthy body without always having the best food as long as the mindset is positive.

“You need both. Eventually, junk food is going to accumulate in your body, and we know that will eventually create a [negative] environment for our brain and body to operate in. The brain and the mind are affected physically by junk food, processed foods, and excess chemicals. They [can] cause leaky gut and do [damage] to the cardiovascular system. There’s so much research around that — so it’s both.” –Dr. Caroline Leaf

Understanding the power of how we think about the food we eat as well as how our state of mind affects digestion is really powerful. You could eat the healthiest foods all the time and be thinking toxic thoughts or staying in the wrong relationship, and those healthy foods won’t do much for you — you can still create inflammation or have a leaky gut because of the mindset.

(Video) Dr. Caroline Leaf on "Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess" with Andrea Samadi

Dr. Leaf calls this the difference between having a “messy mind” and a “wise mind.”

Controlling Our Messy Mind and Creating a Wise Mind

Many of us are trying to manage a messy mind, where we feel unsure or we react poorly to something someone says to us. It might be waking up and immediately complaining all the time and just feeling irritable. These all fall under our messy minds. Dr. Leaf says that instead of dismissing it, we need to be friends with it.

“Feeling discomfort [where] something just [doesn’t feel] right, feeling irritable, or any of these emotions are totally fine — if they’re managed. We need to own them and give ourselves permission to experience them because you cannot grow unless you understand what they feel like. So get irritated! Now, I’m not saying choose to get irritated, but if you get irritated own it and then say, ‘Okay, well, why did I do this? What can I learn from this? How can I grow from this?’ That’s a managed mind. We’re not designed to be these perfect toxic positivity creatures.” –Dr. Caroline Leaf

It’s refreshing to be reminded that all emotions are safe and normal, and shouldn’t be dismissed. In fact, rather than trying to be happy and positive all the time, it’s actually healthier and better to get frustrated — as long as you use that frustration, listen to it, and let it teach you how to improve yourself. This is the wise mind.

(Video) Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess | Interview with Dr. Caroline Leaf Part 1

Wise mind is the ability to recognize that I don’t know everything and I need other people. I recognize it’s okay to cry, to be sad, to be depressed. I recognize that anxiety and depression are signals and when my body aches, that’s telling me something. It’s the wisdom to stand back and see another perspective by having deep discussions like this, exploring philosophy.” –Dr. Caroline Leaf

Wise mind is all about learning to ask for advice, talking to our partners and children when something happens, and asking them, “What do you think?” It gives us the grace to make mistakes instead of the toxic positivity out there that, if you’re not dealing with the root of the issue, is like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound.

One of those ways to get to the root is doing an identity check once a year.


1. Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess, Dr. Caroline Leaf
(Backstage JamieKBates)
2. Podcast 405: Why Keeping the Peace May Not Be the Best Thing & Other Relationship Advice
(Dr. Caroline Leaf)
3. Podcast 202: Detergents & Depression: How Cleaning Products Are Messing Up Your Mental Health
(Dr. Caroline Leaf)
4. Peter Crone & Dr. Caroline Leaf REVEAL How The Mind Can Help HEAL THE BODY!
(Dhru Purohit)
5. Dr. Caroline Leaf on Anxiety and Depression on The Same 24 Hours with Meredith Atwood
(Meredith Atwood and The Same 24 Hours Podcast)
6. 5 Steps to Manage Your Mind | The Dr. Josh Axe Show Ep 81
(Dr. Josh Axe)


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